95 year old WWII veteran killed after being tased and shot by police

 
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95 year old WWII veteran killed after being tased and shot by police

Greetings from Sturgis, SD on a delightful day which is blemished only by this story which has me fairly furious:

When John Wrana was a young man, fit and strong and fighting in World War II with the U.S. Army Air Corps, did he ever think he'd end this way?

Just a few weeks shy of his 96th birthday, in need of a walker to move about, cops coming through the door of his retirement home with a Taser and a shotgun. 

The old man, described by a family member as "wobbly" on his feet, had refused medical attention. The paramedics were called. They brought in the Park Forest police.

First they tased him, but that didn't work. So they fired a shotgun, hitting him in the stomach with a bean-bag round. Wrana was struck with such force that he bled to death internally, according to the Cook County medical examiner.

"The Japanese military couldn't get him at the age he was touchable, in a uniform in the war. It took 70 years later for the Park Forest police to do the job," Wrana's family attorney, Nicholas Grapsas, a former prosecutor, said in an interview with me Thursday.

Wow.  I'm sure there is another side to this, but I'm hard pressed to imagine a series of events that somehow results in (NOT SWAT, my apologies, a different version had stated that) police officers with shields storming into a 95 year old man's room and shooting him while he sat in his chair.  There clearly wasn't an iminent threat, couldn't they just have waited him out?  The home didn't want them storming in there.  And what is the charge for resisting medical attention?  Even if he was some sort of threat to other residents (which he clearly wasn't at the time he was in his chair) couldn't they have used some other means of restraining him?  He had a walker....

Here's video from the Chicago Tribune of the reporter who spoke with the attorney.

 

The picture above is him with his wife in 2005.  Helen Wrana passed later that year.  The only positive that I can see in any of this is that now he is by her side again.  But just so sad.

Posted in the burner | 169 comments
 
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where is obama now oh that right the man was white there is a party going on all hes worry,d about are the muslim illegal immigrants and the black man the hell with that cracker

What is this world coming to? Surely, this is not the same United States Of America that this man risked his life for his country during WWII. It seems that our personal rights have been taken away from us. Shouldn't a person have the right to refuse his own medication if he so desired? And about the police involved in this matter: they should be treated as criminals. They have no right being police officers. Justice was not served through their actions. I believe that all the guilty parties will get what they truly deserve when each of them stands to give an account of his/her life before God.

who should you worry about someone trying to brake into your house or cops coming to your house

THIS KIND OF BRUTALITY AND LAWLESSNESS IS JUST THE BEGINNING OF THE ABUSES THAT ARE GOING TO BE PERPETRATED AGAINST AMERICANS INCLUDING WOMEN AND CHILDREN BY THE POLICE AND SOON OUR OWN MILITARY. WE WILL ALSO SOON SEE UN TROOPS PATROLLING OUR COMMUNITIES AND WITH NO REGARD TO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. FEMA CAMPS WILL SOON BE OPEN FOR "BUSINESS" HOUSING AMERICANS AND THEIR FAMILIES. I THINK IT IS TIME FOR LEGIONNAIRES AND ALL OTHER VETS' GROUPS TO WAKE UP AND FORGET ABOUT THEIR BARS, THEIR SPAGETTI DINNERS, CONVENTIONS, AND ALL MEANINGLESS BULL CRAP THAT THEY WASTE THEIR TIME ON AND FOCUS OF ORGANIZING TO SAVE OUR COUNTRY FOR IMPENDING DISASTER AND THE CLUTCHES OF THOSE WHO WANT TO DESTROY IT. STOP WORRING ABOUT PROTECTING THE NON-PROFIT STATUS AND WORRY ABOUT THE COUNTRY AND THE CONSTITUTION!

you can bet these killers in police uniforms are not veterans.

oh yes debbie a bean bag fired from a 12gauge shotgun at a short distance would move at how many feet per second? and on or into your stomach very lethal i would think. very troubling situation.

I am an 88 year old WWII veteran and would not like to get hit by anything fired out of a gun. But I wonder what has been left out of this report. This is such a fantastic story that there must be something left out. However, there is no excuse for shooting anything at a 95 year old man who has to move with the aid of a walker even if he has a knife. Surely two young, able bodied men can defend themselves against one 95 year old invalid.

indicate that he was threatening staff with a metal cane and a 12" knife. Horrible that it happened but there is obviously a great deal more to this story.

On 08/09/13, Bob Pemberton wrote:

With regard to the John Wrana matter shown above, on the surface I agree that this level of force used by police seems to be unwarranted.

One might also wonder how well trained and equipped was the staff at the facility where Mr. Wrana was a resident to handle incidents of this type thus precluding the necessity of calling police???

Notwithstanding, there are usually two or more sides to every incident such as this that should receive objective inquiry before a final judgment is made.

From the little I know, it appears that Mr. Wrana was a resident inside an elderly care facility allegedly threatening staff with a cane and a knife.

If, the 911 call stated the above, but failed to indicate that the suspect was a 95 years old WWII veteran, and the 911 dispatcher’s radio signal to the responding police radio motor patrol units merely indicated “man with cane and knife threatening staff,” or words to that effect, the initial police response, prior to arrival on the scene, in and by itself would not be unusual.

From my perspective, but not having all the facts in this case, the final result might be dependent upon the initial information available to the responding units from their 911 dispatcher and their immediate reaction vs. the action events of the perpetrator that took place upon police arrival. The drama that unfolds in instances like this is not spread out over long periods of time. Police know from experience it can be very quick and very violent.

If I was involved in this investigation I would first want to listen to the 911 recordings to determine exactly what was reported to the 911 dispatcher; what questions the 911 dispatcher might have asked of the caller; exactly what words went over the air from the 911 to the radio motor patrol units; and was there any additional info available to the 911 dispatcher after the original transmission that could have been further transmitted such as the approximate age of the perpetrator; whether the perpetrator was a patient or a staff member; and were there any persons injured as a result of the perpetrator’s criminal acts or omissions. Without detailed information it is probably safe to assume the responding police anticipated a younger perpetrator and that there were most likely injured or dead victims at the scene.

Over the years I have learned that numerous instances of alleged improprieties on the part of responding police are case specific, fact sensitive, and risk driven sometimes based on the original radio transmission of the 911 dispatcher to responding units. The police officers perception of the imminent danger of what he or she might be facing is often dependent upon how much information he or she initially receives from the 911 dispatcher over the air.

Some agencies have exceptionally well trained and experienced dispatchers who know how to seek accurate and more detailed information before transmitting their radio signals to the responding units.

In some cases the 911 operators might not have these levels of training or experience and/or the agency itself has not been proactive across the board in their potential responses to calls of this nature.

I’m not sure if we can condemn responding police in the John Wrana matter without first knowing their levels of training and what other equipment was available to them other than a taser and beanbag device such as netting and or concave shields. In simple language, it is hard to expect police to always be both effective and efficient if they have not been adequately trained and equipped to accomplish their missions and/or tasks at hand.

Notwithstanding, in summary of a lot of what happened, I’m sure further investigation will reveal there were contributing factors that will point toward varying comparative negligence factors at many levels of the agency involved. If so, perhaps we can mitigate to some extent the apparent excessive actions of the responding officers that resulted in the unfortunate and untimely death of this 95 year old WWII Army Air Corps veteran for whom I feel not only sympathy but empathy as well.

Police kill 95-year-old WWII vet

John Wrana dies after being tased and hit with bean bag rounds by police. Read more

ROBERT N. PEMBERTON, SR.
MA, MS
Nassau County, NY Police Department (Retired)
Sergeant-Major of Marines (Retired)
Proud Member of the American Legion

God help us all if that's what they did to him. Those RAMBO cops should be very proud of themselves They probably won't have a problem sleeping at night because you got to have a conscience and they probably don't .

Bean bags are lethal,just ask the parents of a Boston College student who lost her life when struck in the eye by one. This after a Red Sox game & they where in the street when some fans got unruly. It was not meant for her,but she ended up getting hit. When you cannot control an elderly patient perhaps you are in the wrong profession !!!

Cops have been granted the right to kill another person if they feel threatened. If grandma comes at them with a ball of twine, and they "fear for there life," they have the right to shoot her on the spot. Because of an over aggressive rules of engagement manual, cops have gladly given up on compassion and understanding. Law enforcement will only get more aggressive until people force the government to tweak the rules of engagement to protect American people from cops gone wild

Since when does our refusal to accept Medical Treatment become a Police matter? Since when does anyone have a right to force us to accept Medical Treatment against our wishes? Clearly this is just another indication that not only is their a lack of common sense on the part of authorities but a general disdain for our Individual Rights by the Authorities. Why? I'm equally certain the fact that a relative requested care for the old man may have been a factor in the ill advised police response and their excessive use of force.

Most 95 year olds are frail, fragile and in failing health. For many in declining health life can become like a torture, particularly when the Medical Establishment becomes involved? What gives them the right to override an individuals stated wishes?

As for those who claim violence is always unacceptable, I have to ask wouldn't most people become violent if they were subject to assault no matter the intention of their attackers? Who owned Mr. Wrana? Since when do we not have the right to refuse un-wanted Medical Treatment? I guarantee you that if you tried to impose any form of medical treatment which I did not want, I will not only refuse but may react with enough force to repel anyone attempting to force "Treatment" against my will.

Capiche', Stambaugh & Company?

I don't know which is more disturbing, the killing of a 95 year old disabled senior citizen sitting in a chair, unarmed, and only refusing further treatment when his doctor (that's Medical Doctor you Debbi Stambraugh) has said the man may well die either way, whether he gets the surgery or not or Debbi Stambraugh. Debbi, my Grandmother was a Police Officer, my father was a Police Officer and in my law enforcement days I covered 2 plane crashes (the 1st on my 1st night on duty in a rainstorm with LIVE power wires all over the road I was directing traffic on and the crash other I helped carry the bodies down a muddy hill to the ambulances), one assassination (of the Mayor, what a zoo that day was), one riot, 2 murders, countless other criminal actions and all in one year. Ms. Stambaugh you clearly do not know what your are talking about regarding a gun fired, blunt force projectile designed to immobilize a person, particularly when that person is a 95+ year old, sitting a chair, and he had already been Tasered. He bled to death dummy. A death almost as bad as starvation. That alone should be a criminal action. This does not vaguely approach ANY of the crimes you cite, not by any measure. And you have a garbage mouth. I too am glad you are no longer on the streets. {Curiosity, what WAR did you physically serve in??} With your demeanor, you'd be a threat to all, not a protector. I have seen many excellent law enforcement officers and some others who should not ever be in that profession, ever. You read like your are still in the latter grouping. Nasty, nasty, nasty!

Readers - Please add the word "to" between Doctor and you Debbi in my immediate previous response. Had a senior moment.

Where was the commom sense, regarding the use of this type of force on an 95 year old man.

This is the 4th or 5th time I have read about Cops shooting old and infirm people. what has become of our country that hires people to be policemen when they have an IQ of about 10. I believe that when the government started to give excess military equipment to the cops, the cops now think that they are military commandoes and every one is ISISL to them, they shoot first and ask questions later. I hate to say this but I am becoming afraid of the cops. I used to tell my kids if they needed help they should go to a cop now I am afraid if they do they might get shot.

Has anyone considered that this veteran wanted to die. And, rather than being able to do so by refusing medication that was "life extending", let the chips fall as they did? Though it is beyond my comprehension that a reasonably fit, sane, trained, law enforcement officer could not control this situation, perhaps he simply filled the role of final helper. I have seen this at least three times in the last month. Where law enforcement becomes "Dr. Kevorkian" to vets that are hurting, despondent, lost, or simply infirm (mentally or physically) to the extant that they know their actions will result in their likely demise. It is likely their thinking that better a soldier pass that way, than waste away lonely and despondent, and perhaps not willing or able to do it for themselves.

With all due respect: This is shocking but I am not surprised. We veterans are treated as chaff. You know it. You send us to do your dirty work overseas, you beat the war drum at every chance, then pretend to thank us for our service. Did you incourage your son/daughter to join so they will be out of your hair? Let's be honest. My advice is do not serve, do not volunteer your precious sons and daughters to be sacrificed, get out and try to live your life. Franklin wrote "those who would give up freedom for security, deserve neather."

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News from the World of Military and Veterans Issues. Iraq and A-Stan in parenthesis reflects that the author is currently deployed to that theater.